Curse

Tyla · Jul 08, 2008, 09:45 AM // 09:45

So basically you are pissed off because a team is preparing to win by using the best possible options to their knowledge?

I think I'll just quote Dark here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

of course people tell you what to run because you are building a team. The very same happens in PvE if you play with humans too.

Solas · Jul 08, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

So where did it go wrong for the larger part of the GW crowd that remained playing PvE and never touched PvP ?

"It went wrong" when people found PvE more fun then PvP i guess.
Yeah i know it was intended to be Mainly PvP.

Quote:

I have a lot of thoughts about that, ranging from "average MMO-er is not competitve minded and would rather spend 1000+ hours killing critters than spending 1000+ hours learning how to outsmart another player"

Learning to outsmart as in Wiki builds?
The people that made the builds did that,alot of others just copied their work

Quote:

to "People that play MMO's want to 'live' in a world where they are the best, the bravest, the hero. In PvP, there will always be someone handing your ass to you, therefor, the average MMO-er does not enjoy PvP".

Never crossed my mind,
main persona i have attained about PvP is alot the lines of "omg he killed meh, nerf!" as there has always been people moaning about "X is using this and Y uses that, no skill" Along with X-way.
No way am i staying PvP is like that all im saying is thats the impression i get because the moaners shout the loudest.

Quote:

Thoughts and input welcome. Please keep it civilised (yes, i know this sentence is pretty useless on a forum and people will act like total asshats whenever they want online. But you can always ask and hope for the best ... )

I Didn't really PvP because i prefered Hunting Titles, Sense of Accomplishment, other people may not like them but thats cool, i do it for me not for e-peen.
But as i know consider myself bored of pve i tried to take a step on the pvp ladder, but found out its hard to join a real guild as you need R1 glad etc. that kind of req. (which i believe you do need some exp. R1 is a bit high) is putting a nice bit off PvP- my own view.

arcanemacabre · Jul 08, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

The main reason I've never played any 'high end' PvP is because of the commitment involved.

I don't play (and never have played) regularly enough to get into any good guilds, PvE or PvP.

When I am on, well, life happens. In other words, I have to stop every so often for any number of reasons, which is simply not possible during any kind of high-competitive situation where every player matters for a solid timeframe.

However, these same reasons are exactly why I love GW PvE and heroes/henchmen. These are the reasons I originally purchased GW, because it supported my casual playstyle, and did so without monthly fees. If the devs originally intended everyone to shift to PvP for the endgame, then they 'accidentally' made the rest of the game perfect for us casual PvEers.

AB, FA/JQ, and RA are probably the best PvP for all as they are not only a stepping-stone for PvE players, they are also great "casual PvP."

Tyla · Jul 08, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

"It went wrong" when people found PvE more fun then PvP i guess.
Yeah i know it was intended to be Mainly PvP.

I believe it's downfall started from the release of Factions and what that brought.

Div · Jul 08, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I'm a casual player. Even though I suck, I don't like to admit it and I can't stand better players yelling at me and calling me "noob." That's why I think PvE and PvP should be kept separate, so that bad players like me can have my haven where I can dominate and show off my r6 koabd to have people worship me as a god.

P.S. I also hate working in a team. It's all about solo builds. Why would I want to change my build for the betterment of the team? I'm a casual player. I shouldn't need to do such things.

RotteN · Jul 08, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

Learning to outsmart as in Wiki builds?
The people that made the builds did that,alot of others just copied their work

This statement does show you have indeed never put any serious tought into PvP. It's about MUCH more than just the 8 skills on your skillbar.

Reading through the first 3 pages i guess most of the people have been turned down by the amount of extra time/effort it takes to get good at PvP, aswell as the "newbie-unfriendly" atmosphere surrounding it.

Would it help if Anet would decide to make high-end PvE more like PvP ? (better (balanced) groups, more synergy, possibly better AI. Would take longer to kill one group, but they'd just put less foes in the entire area). While that wouldn't solve the atmosphere problem, it would prepare new players better for PvP, so maybe the skill-gap wouldn't be that big.

The atmosphere is a two-edged knife though. I'm pretty sure there are more experienced players out there flaming the new guys for bringing bad builds/playing like crap. However, there are just as much new guys that flame people, and refuse to take critisism, even when voiced in a constructive way. I've spend time explaining new players why their build was sub-par and what would be a better option and why it's better. Some react good, welcome the advice, and learn from it. Others go "LOL, GTFO, I NOW WUT IM DOIN, U FAG". So i basically stopped giving people build advice, except on rare occasions where i feel like running the risk to attract a retart into spamming me with "NOOOB"-whispers for half an hour.

DarkNecrid · Jul 08, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I'm a casual player. Even though I suck, I don't like to admit it and I can't stand better players yelling at me and calling me "noob." That's why I think PvE and PvP should be kept separate, so that bad players like me can have my haven where I can dominate and show off my r6 koabd to have people worship me as a god.

P.S. I also hate working in a team. It's all about solo builds. Why would I want to change my build for the betterment of the team? I'm a casual player. I shouldn't need to do such things.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing true who the hell uses phoenix jesus christ. my 10 year old sister can play better than you

she r8 koabd, so ha.

itt people talking about pvp who don't know anything about it or complaining about having to work as a team!

around · Jul 08, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Fundamentally, it's because people are lazy.

They don't want to put the extra hours involved in getting into PvP. I mean, heaven forbid, putting together a friends list involves initiative and effort, whereas heroes and henchmen are always there for you.

That, and the fact that people are too thin-skinned to constructive criticism, or just criticism in general, and take build help comments as personal remarks on the integrity of thier character, their bloodline and the size of their penis/tits (delete as appropriate).

Oukanna · Jul 08, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

I played PVE for 2 years, after a year and a half i decided, i should try PvP now. I started Abing since factions came out though, but as i see it many times hard core pvpers dont see AB as a pvp sport and call it noobs pvp.

I did RA, but didnt find it to my taste, so i tried TA and liked that better, as you can organise more. I found though i was being shouted at to do 1 build and 1 build only whih was an air build. So i decided to comply, and then started changing my build to what suited me and what i thought optomised my playing for killing the enemy (other players)
Whenever i formed TA teams, they either told me to revert back to this old build or i would get kicked or they leave.
This got annoying after a while so i moved on to HA.

When i got there, i had to go in randomway teams to learn the ropes (never got past 2 rounds in these,) so i didnt really learn much. However these where the only teams i could go in as everyone else wanted you to be a certain rank.
Over time i got better, had to use sway to get into better than randomway groups, i learnt more there.

Another problem is definatly the attitude of players, they blame things on others, they rage quit and insult and so on. It takes like an hour to form a group to last one round and it falls apart again because people are calling each other noobs.

I went back to Ta at times to have a go, and now i notice it is starting to get rank happy there -_-

To your idea about making high end PVE more like PVP, I am afraid that probably wont help as you still need the ranks to join good groups. However i guess it would slightly prepare PVE for PVP.

On a side note, i always used to ask questions when i partied with people, about what i am doing, It is a risk as people may call me a noob but i have come across a few nice people who explain to me what i need to do.
Doing this made me confident about what i was doing for the team, our team got better each round and we had fun and gained a few fame.

People just need to relax, if the Hard core PVPers take the time to explain a little more then the new people will understand and wont need to feel so threatened and play better. Just because they are PVE does not automatically make them crap. The people who dont take to people telling them what to do are silly and will never be good, its not to do with them playing PVE and no PVP, Imo anyhow.

Saying all this, it boils down to, people want to gain ranks fast, and to do this getting good teams is the key, so no one wants to help out the new players. They just want to get in their fast and get it done.

I do have an idea that might help, though a lot of people may not like it. I shall say it anyhow.

People segregate ranks, so why not create tiers. So certain ranks can only play with certain ranks.
So unranked go against unranked, then when they go up a rank they go to the next tier and so on.
This could eliminate rank segregation and make it much more fun for everyone.
Just a thought ^^

EPO Bot · Jul 08, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

So basically you are pissed off because a team is preparing to win by using the best possible options to their knowledge?

I think I'll just quote Dark here.

I always had more fun trying to win with the craziest possible builds. Too bad that is NEVER allowed in pvp since everyone only wants to win and if that takes using the same build over and over untill it is nerfed then that makes the winning pointless.

This game desparately needs more high end random pvp with random teams and maybe even randomly generated characters with random skillbars. Now THAT would take some skill and adaptation.

Anet should do an eight man RA weekend just to try stuff out.

RiKio · Jul 08, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

PvE- A space where people can escape from the Real Life and perform their epic fantasies.

PvP- The real life: a place where a wild competition is always present.

Every enigma can be resolved using basic psychology, guys.

Crom The Pale · Jul 08, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

PvE is flexible, I can play when I want to.

PvP requires co-ordination of other people, I can only play when X number of guild members are online at the same time and wish to do the exact same thing as I at that time and have the same amount of time to commit to setting up team builds, testing team builds and then playing PvP.

EPO Bot · Jul 08, 2008, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Not all people in real life want to be number one at all costs. It may be hard to understand for some people, but you can switch to a job that pays less then your previous one because you just enjoy it more.

FoxBat · Jul 08, 2008, 01:01 PM // 13:01

The points about PvP requiring more effort and coordination are accurate, but why should it be surprising many are uninterested? Games generally aren't Srs business. Many have a job and then want to goof off on games, not the other way around.

You'd see a smarter discussion about PvP/E seperation if the game had some "serious" PvE like WoW raids. No I'm not arguing that they take near as much practice as getting to the top 100 does, but they do involve coordinating a large number of people with specific team compositions and equipment, and there are many people who simply can't function at the minimal level required for success, so player skill becomes an issue when selecting participants. The closest GW ever game to this was when Anguish first came out, and the "popularity" of the place (and torrent of whine threads) spoke volumes.

Coordination, dealing with other humans, and actually working as a team are things much of the populace has no interest in; you're going to lose those players from GW PvP before you even get to the "I hate losing to humans" problem.

DarkNecrid · Jul 08, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

Not all people in real life want to be number one at all costs. It may be hard to understand for some people, but you can switch to a job that pays less then your previous one because you just enjoy it more.

Maybe if you were by yourself...

If you had a spouse, or children, you know, a team to look after, I highly doubt it. And if you say you would, I would most definitely consider you a terrible human being for not doing your best to provide for your family.

upier · Jul 08, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Maybe if you were by yourself...

If you had a spouse, or children, you know, a team to look after, I highly doubt it. And if you say you would, I would most definitely consider you a terrible human being for not doing your best to provide for your family.

It's because of views like this that Oprah makes millions.

pumpkin pie · Jul 08, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

So where did it go wrong for the larger part of the GW crowd that remained playing PvE and never touched PvP ?

PS : Yes, i am a PvP player. No, this is no assault upon the PvE gamestyle. I play PvE aswell, and do enjoy it from time to time. I'm just curious why many PvE players never even touched PvP. Maybe Anet can pick up some ideas for GW2, to get more people into PvP. (the more, the better)

Would you take me on your PvP play every day? I have 56 fames, I can put on any build you throw at me wear any gear with any runes you want. would you, with no question asked just bring me on all your PvP play and teach me along the way?

Guilds that I join often tells you that You can play with guildie anytime if someone is online regardless of your rank, I play with them on some rare occasion when they are desperate, I'd jump in quickly, announcing I am rankless first. and Often i am almost very sure I am as good and sometime better then some of the other guildie who (with rank) "talk alot" to the officers and guild leaders." I have simply given up trying to play PvP. I rather go to RA and AB where obviously, I am very good at

does that answer your question?

Boogz · Jul 08, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

There could be some kind of endgame mission that would be PvP based, just like the mission that we have to complete in order to leave pre-searing, IMO, with this some PvErs could start liking PvP, and go into stuff like RA/HA/TA/HB/GvG, I'm not including AB coz it's the only PvP played by most of PvErs, just for the title.

Another problem that has been bashed for a long time, is the "PvP are elitists", specially on HA, where you'll hardly ever find a party that won't ask for R3+

Trub · Jul 08, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

There could be some kind of endgame mission that would be PvP based, just like the mission that we have to complete in order to leave pre-searing, IMO, with this some PvErs could start liking PvP, and go into stuff like RA/HA/TA/

erm...The Zaishen battles?
Excellent fun on HM..not against other players..but..it's on the battle isles!

Boogz · Jul 08, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

It has zaishen when there aren't players, my idea is some kind of mission that is a team of players against another team of players, well it's just the same as a normal PvP battle, i don't have better ideas for this, lol